When a Business Owner Asks You to Dance | LoL #16

00:00:00:07 – 00:00:18:08

Steph

It’s interesting. I was thinking about today and last night when I fell asleep and I had a dream and I dreamt about a real life thing that happened when we worked for this bank three banks ago. Right. So whoever’s listening could do the math. And now we were at an event, and the owner of the bank came up and asked me to dance.

00:00:18:13 – 00:00:34:03

Steph

And I was there with my husband. Everyone’s with their spouses. It’s like. I thought it was awkward. Eight. So I was like, no, no, I’m good. Thanks so much. So I will. And so my husband and I are sitting there and the president of the bank looks over at me and he says, hey, when the owner asks you to dance, you dance.

00:00:34:09 – 00:00:54:17

Steph

And sure enough, I got up and I danced with the dude. And this morning I woke up and I was like, mad. Thinking that about sums up the career of a woman in corporate America. Hey, little lady. Like I was running the whole department, right? Hey, little lady, when the owner asks you dance, you dance. And sure enough, I got up and I danced.

00:00:54:18 – 00:01:05:06

Steph

Well, shame on me. Those dancing days are over and they’re over. I don’t want mentors anymore. I want them to.

00:01:05:08 – 00:01:41:10

Steph

Welcome back to the Lords of Lending podcast, where we talk deals, dreams and the dynamics of entrepreneurs who execute. I’m your host, Lord Stephanie. Cast and you’re done, followed by my fellow Lords Shane Pearson and Lord Brian Congaree. Now, before I dive in, I want to set the stage because this one’s a special one for me. I’ve spent 25 years in business and I’ve seen over and over that women across all industries have had to navigate all sorts of dynamics in the climb as a female banker lender.

00:01:41:12 – 00:02:11:02

Steph

I have my own observations and now series now that I’m in the second half of my life and I’m more free flowing with my opinions. Women have been leading an economic evolution in this country, and the women’s economy employs over 12 million Americans, generates over 2.7 trillion in annual revenue. And over the past 20 years, women owned businesses have grown twice as fast as the national average.

00:02:11:04 – 00:02:46:20

Steph

Women own an estimated 42% of business in America. And yet, this is the one that really gets me. Only 16% of loans made by banks in this country are women. And my initial reaction is wait, what? Why? So we’ll take let’s take you all back. And this will fall in the line of what my theories are. And we have a special guest today, our first female owning guest, which I’m very excited about because I’ve known her for many years and is a close personal friend.

00:02:46:22 – 00:03:09:08

Steph

And when you look at the dynamics of women in leadership roles or ownership roles, I mean think about the the rapid pace at which women have have grown in this country and in the world. Well, okay, we go back to we have the right to vote in 1920. Yeah. Women were allowed to borrow money to buy a home in 1970.

00:03:09:12 – 00:03:41:12

Steph

Okay. But get this. It was only until 1988 that women could actually borrow money for a business without a male signer. 1988. Guys, that is it. In my career, lifetime and in Ruth’s career lifetime, we were not allowed the borrow money for business without a male cosigner. And so that is when I started out in my career, I was just getting started.

00:03:41:17 – 00:04:04:20

Steph

And so you think about what we had to deal with as women in corporate America. And we couldn’t even lending money to women for the most part because there was the stigma or the there still is the stigma, in my opinion today on women’s ability to operate and just certainly industries. I mean, I looked at the construction business.

00:04:04:21 – 00:04:35:14

Steph

The funeral business is a classic one. That’s why I’m excited to interview Ruth Dawn Kress today. She embodies this message, and she embodies all of these questions that I have in my head. And probably women in our industry and across all industry have today is how do we access capital? How do we thrive as owners, as leaders? Ruth has been in the funeral industry for over 39 years, and since 2019, she’s skilled through acquisition.

00:04:35:15 – 00:05:03:12

Steph

I remember I and Ruth before she owned a business and she was working in corporate. And so the big question for for me and I talk about Ruth Klein, she now owns over 20 cemeteries, two funeral homes, crematory has over 100 employees, plus a granite monument company and soon a vault plant. And this is all since 2019. I mean, we were talking just a few years here.

00:05:03:14 – 00:05:36:13

Steph

So clearly, she’s on a mission. She’s not stopping. She’s built this alongside her son, making this a true family owned enterprise. Mother son dynamics in of itself. I know I have a son. It is a whole a whole different animal. So it’s beautiful in of itself to see you build this business alongside your son. So welcome. Ruth Thorn Kress, my longtime personal friend and woman powerhouse, moving and shaking in in the funeral industry, which has been a multigenerational, male dominated industry.

00:05:36:15 – 00:05:38:06

Steph

Welcome, Ruth.

00:05:38:07 – 00:06:03:09

Ruth

Thank you. Thank you, ma’am, and I’m excited to be here. And hopefully we get some other women to the top. And it’s, as you say, the dream. You just have to look back and see exactly what you’re looking for. My dream right now is opening up a vault plant, and that is, we’re trying to be an all inclusive company.

00:06:03:11 – 00:06:29:16

Ruth

As everybody else for cost. And we just, we’re always looking for more acquisitions as for sure, as, you know, we put we do go above and beyond to try to make sure we take care of our employees. We want to be we want to be a family owned and run business. And nowadays, even that’s hard.

00:06:29:16 – 00:06:54:09

Ruth

And you’re right. I work for corporate. I remember one of the comments somebody said to me, that’s really, I think what made me want to go out and get my own, get my, get my own company. And so I wouldn’t do that. And, and the comment to me was, you know, they’re no longer a name or a person put a number on them.

00:06:54:11 – 00:07:22:03

Ruth

And I just thought, wow, that’s so heartless. I mean, I just couldn’t do that. Especially, you know, with one company, I was 29 years when I was, the regional vice president. And when they told me that because they had brought a new CEO in and I was like, this just isn’t for me anymore. And I will say a lot of people said, oh, getting an SBA is such a hard, hard, loan.

00:07:22:05 – 00:07:45:21

Ruth

And I and I will say this and not because she’s on her, but she knows I tell everybody. They made it. So you guys made it so easy for me and being a woman. You’re correct. Pretty much you guys, the SBA was who wanted to deal with you. You know, everybody else was like, oh, well, you just want to do cosigners.

00:07:45:21 – 00:08:12:19

Ruth

And even now you say, in 1988 we were looking 2019, they still, they still. But who’s going to cosign with you? What do you mean? I mean, so it was quite interesting, an experience with the banks and going with the SBA really did make it a lot easier. And again, being a woman, you guys never even questioned any of it.

00:08:12:21 – 00:08:41:04

Ruth

We started I did I started out with the original eight and, still have those. We were we were up to over 23, 24, entities right now. And we’re going to continue to grow our my goal was actually 50. My goal is 50. Along along the way, I’ve had people want to, you know, come in and, actually.

00:08:41:04 – 00:08:46:08

Ruth

Oh well, we’ll give you backing and all that, but when I need backing, I come to you, Stephanie.

00:08:46:13 – 00:08:47:19

Steph

Yeah. You give me my.

00:08:47:19 – 00:09:22:10

Ruth

Backing to to grow. And the reason why and again, because me as a woman, I think my voice would get overpowered running the company. Once you start getting a board of directors and all that type of stuff. So my goal is actually 50 and to be all inclusive, with our own granite company, our own vault, we produce everything that we’re that we sell, I guess, or, you know, I, I love this, and I love, love, love this industry.

00:09:22:12 – 00:09:30:17

Ruth

I feel that we help people all the time, make a difference in families. Lives on one of the worst days of their lives.

00:09:30:19 – 00:09:59:14

Steph

Okay, I’m going to jumping on the industry. This is I’ve seen Ruth in action. And I’ll tell you it’s like watching art. It’s like watching a symphony because you look at the the industry itself. Right. 33%, funeral directors are women in America today, right? 33%. Yet the interesting thing is, in mortuary school, 70 to 77% of students are female.

00:09:59:16 – 00:10:46:23

Steph

So the coming the girls are coming. All right? The girls are coming. And that’s a huge pipeline. It has not yet translated to leadership, but it will because we have, industry trailblazers like Ruth paving the way for these women that are graduating from mortuary science. And the interesting difficulty in buying a legacy funeral home is you’re usually dealing with a multi-generational owner, usually an older gentleman who has been in the business for multi generations now, and women are raised from since the beginning of time to be agreeable, nice and sweet and understanding and gentle and kind.

00:10:47:00 – 00:10:47:18

Steph

Right.

00:10:47:19 – 00:10:49:09

Ruth

Well, no one’s saying that about me.

00:10:49:15 – 00:11:14:00

Steph

Yeah. I’m sorry you’ve adapted. I’ll tell you what. When you’re negotiating with an older, male, multi-generational, male dominated industry, how do you negotiate? That’s my number one question. And I think this could be the biggest takeaway. How do you, Ruth, what would you say is your style? And I’ve seen you in action. It’s beautiful. I just sit there and I just watch because I want to learn.

00:11:14:05 – 00:11:29:14

Steph

But how do you negotiate with these men? Because I come in guns blazing, and that doesn’t always work. You have to have finesse, but you also have to hold your own. So what’s your strategy in negotiating with an older male seller?

00:11:29:16 – 00:12:07:07

Ruth

What I do is actually I like to read people, and I guess that comes from the sales side of me. But, I go in and you know what? The way we got a couple actually, of our places where people were very soft, the mother son team and family owned, a lot of people don’t want to deal with corporate anymore, and we do want to make sure that we continue on people’s legacies and the way they would want, the way they ran it and know that, you know, and continue to take their dreams forward.

00:12:07:09 – 00:12:27:02

Ruth

And that’s actually and we do sit down a lot of times and talk, you know. Well, what what is your dream for this business? What is what was your dream. And if you know, to try to align with it, these guys, you are correct. But it’s like giving up your kid. I mean, they work these their whole life.

00:12:27:02 – 00:12:56:01

Ruth

It’s like giving up a kid. So you want to really try. And, you know, I have compassion for them. And a lot of times, if you don’t have a plan on how you’re going, you know, a lot of times these the kids don’t want it. A lot of times they don’t even have a kid. So they want somebody to continue on what their dream was.

00:12:56:03 – 00:13:16:19

Ruth

We try to if it’s a family owned, we, we absolutely try to, I don’t come in. A lot of times they have people who have worked with them probably 20, 30, 40 years, you know, and that’s a lot of times their biggest concern. How about this person? They took care of me. They help me. How do I you know, I, I don’t want them to be fired.

00:13:16:20 – 00:13:42:22

Ruth

And when we go into, any facility, we don’t look to fire anybody. We want everybody to come on, be part of our team. And and some is an adjustment for them. But we do still try to, I guess, let them have their, you know, say also in a business, I’m a firm believer and there’s a lot of people that have a lot better ideas than me.

00:13:43:00 – 00:14:03:21

Ruth

And it’s no harm in listening to other people. And but when you’re dealing with these guys, you just I, I do go in with compassion because I know if I, when I have to retire, this is my baby, you know, I mean, you when you build, you build something from scratch. You don’t want it to go by the wayside.

00:14:03:23 – 00:14:31:06

Ruth

You want it to be there in 40 years. In the last deal that we just did, the guy ended up dying, if you remember correctly, which was heartbreaking to me that it took them so long. He end up passing away in his son and wife, still sold to us. And, that was his big thing, you know, don’t get rid of his employees.

00:14:31:08 – 00:15:08:22

Ruth

And we didn’t. One reach one was one was literally retiring the day they sold. So we knew that. But other than that, everybody who was there still was there. And, they they a lot of times they’ll find out that, new company isn’t as bad as everybody thinks it’s going to be. But but we try to continue on with their with their thoughts, their dreams, and just incorporate it with ours because each each individual, entity is run as a separate entity.

00:15:09:00 – 00:15:26:09

Ruth

It’s just. Yeah. You know, I mean, they have, some of them that have a hard time adjusting that all the bills go to one office, but it’s like we just made your job easier. Don’t worry about it. You ain’t got to worry about paying bills now. Just send them all here. Yeah, you know, but that’s that.

00:15:26:09 – 00:15:42:13

Ruth

We normally go in and and that’s normally what helps the situation. And a lot of people don’t like the corporate, structures that, you know, that come in and we’re buying everything up in the 80s and 90s, if you remember that.

00:15:42:15 – 00:16:04:15

Steph

Yeah. Well, yeah. Completely. Yeah. So there’s been a shift in dynamics and ownership in the funeral industry, which has been really exciting. And I, I love to lead the charge and making sure that I can provide access to capital to everyone wanting to buy and continue these legacies. And I’m I’m going to put you on this roof. So your your leadership style is through compassion I love it.

00:16:04:15 – 00:16:31:22

Steph

Yeah. That’s fantastic. That’s going to be my my quote for you. Shane, you want to jump in? I know that you had some questions on because we’ve had previous guests on that. We feature growth through or scaling through acquisition. And the interesting thing about what you’ve done is, I mean, look, when you when you say you own 20 cemeteries and you bought these in the last five years, it’s pretty phenomenal.

00:16:32:00 – 00:16:55:22

Steph

I mean, I don’t know anyone else right now that I’m doing business with that has acquired that many so fast. And these are all individual sellers, right? So I mean, think about the time it takes to negotiate a deal, you know, and being able to do all that. And, and the monument company an evolved plant. So Shane, you want to jump in?

00:16:56:00 – 00:16:58:12

Shane

Yeah. Ruth I don’t know who the hell you are.

00:16:58:14 – 00:16:59:10

Ruth

You.

00:16:59:12 – 00:17:21:17

Shane

Let’s let’s dial it back for a second. I honestly, I want I want whoever’s listening to this to understand where you came from a little bit more. And the reason why is because there’s a there became a point, from from what I’ve heard. And, and just picking up in your storyline that, you know, it’s not just about the, the idea of being a man or a woman.

00:17:21:17 – 00:17:41:18

Shane

There’s, there’s this idea that, you know, entrepreneurs, they don’t wait for permission when all is said and done. So you you’re the one who defines your own industry. And so there was a moment. There’s there’s some paradigm shift in your life that got you to the point where you said, you know what, I want to take over the damn world in this, in this funeral industry, just a goal of owning 50 entities.

00:17:41:18 – 00:17:58:20

Shane

That’s not normal. You know what I’m saying? Like there’s not it’s not normal thinking, regardless of where you’re from, where your background, like, you know, just getting one is a big step. But saying, oh, I want 50. Yeah, there’s there’s something going on there. So like I that’s where I say like, I don’t know who the hell you’re, I’m like, where to, where did you come from?

00:17:58:22 – 00:18:19:12

Shane

That would create the person that would have that determination. And because I think that’s probably a beautiful story that we just don’t have quite yet. So if you can back me up a little bit, you know, yes, we had corporate America and all the, the chauvinistic pricks that lived in that world. But let’s let’s talk about, like, you know, you have this, this sea of children and behind you.

00:18:19:12 – 00:18:21:16

Shane

Right, like the grandchildren that you said that’s on the.

00:18:21:16 – 00:18:42:14

Ruth

Air like I do have. I see your grandchildren. I mean, yes, I love it. I actually have three. Okay. Three boys, and that’s who I was with all weekend. So I had them all weekend. So, it’s funny, everybody always ask me, how did you get into this business? I answered an ad making $3.35 an hour making phone calls.

00:18:42:14 – 00:18:46:01

Ruth

Telemarketer. That’s how I got into this business.

00:18:46:01 – 00:18:50:12

Shane

Interesting. And so that was a sales background. Like, so was it specifically.

00:18:50:12 – 00:18:52:21

Ruth

In those telemarketing? That was telemarketing.

00:18:52:21 – 00:18:54:10

Shane

Just straight telemarketing.

00:18:54:12 – 00:18:54:23

Steph

And great.

00:18:54:23 – 00:19:20:12

Ruth

Telemarketing. Right. No, that was it was a, company in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. That’s where I am originally from. So when I use the word ends you, you’ll know that means you all, but I, I started out there as a telemarketer for 335, $3.35 an hour. And for every sale you got off of the cemetery, that a whole $5.

00:19:20:14 – 00:19:48:16

Ruth

So, moved from there, up to, the telemarketing manager, then sales manager. It just has it just grew from there. And, you know, I again, it’s an industry I love. I, I, I pride myself on that. I don’t ask somebody else to do something I won’t do myself. That old adage. And so what I, I know how to dig a grave.

00:19:48:16 – 00:20:26:03

Ruth

I know how to lay markers. I know how to set a vault. You name it, I can do it. I’m currently I’m currently learning, and I think I’m on, like, lesson four on how to actually etch a marker. So, I just I like to know everything that we’re selling, doing whatever has to pertain to the business I personally do or try to do, I just think, how can I tell you to do something and I, I can’t I don’t know how to do it, you know, so I do try to do everything.

00:20:26:03 – 00:20:32:07

Ruth

I’ll get out there for behind on mowing and I get on the zero turn and go, I mean yeah. So she’s still.

00:20:32:09 – 00:20:45:14

Steph

I got one. Yeah. What are you doing? She’s like yeah I’m, I’m a lot more, savvy. It’s it’s people’s like, oh so do this for me. Well oh they did it wrong and I need to go back there. And now I have to do it myself.

00:20:45:19 – 00:21:08:09

Ruth

So yeah, when you’re doing, you’re training somebody or I think that time I think the gentleman’s father had passed away. So I didn’t want to get behind in the summertime and pull somebody. So I went over and I helped the other maintenance man so he wouldn’t get behind, him. Right. I, I find it and I do. And people will even make comments to me why do you do that?

00:21:08:09 – 00:21:28:17

Ruth

You own 20 cemeteries. It’s like, you know, my crew, my staff, when I come out and I do the exact same thing they’re doing, they’re just like. And they’re all, you know, it’s you lead by example, I guess I, you know, so we’re going over all these old adages. I guess that’s what I’m going to say to you.

00:21:28:19 – 00:21:50:12

Ruth

I you asked, you know what makes me do this, I guess let’s go back to the old adages. You know, my father, my father owned a company, and, I was 13 and and had to work and, you know, work for him from 13 to 18, doing concrete. I know how to lay concrete to, is just, I got to work ethic.

00:21:50:12 – 00:22:11:04

Ruth

I guess that’s what it comes down to. I mean, I I’m on the road a lot. I, do it trying to do deals. I mean, I’m always looking for deals. Always. You never know what’s going to come along, and, but you, I guess you just get, as you said, you. It’s the dream. It’s the dream. I have the dream.

00:22:11:06 – 00:22:12:22

Ruth

I think it’s 50.

00:22:13:00 – 00:22:34:23

Shane

You know, I think you can’t you. So I’m puzzling together the storyline as we’re talking about it here and this. You, you started out in life learning how to do hard work. Correct me if I’m wrong. Right. So you learn how to do hard work and you learn how to sell. You learn how to get denied, how to get declined, how to get told no, you got you got rejected.

00:22:34:23 – 00:22:39:06

Shane

Rejection does a lot for a person in shaping who they are. Right. So I think that.

00:22:39:08 – 00:22:39:22

Ruth

Yes, that.

00:22:39:22 – 00:23:09:05

Shane

You followed this path. And also from that rejection, you build some fortitude around the direction of really where you want to steer your own ship, let alone steer someone else’s ship. You know, somebody else has equity. So the idea that Steph is, is bringing in here this idea of owning your own, owning, owning your ownership, is this really taking taking control of the barge that is your experience in life and pointing it in the direction of success?

00:23:09:06 – 00:23:25:04

Shane

And you had this point that I just, I, I enjoy the destination that you’ve created for yourself. Right. Because that’s another part of this. Doesn’t matter how great your ship looks, if you don’t have that destination at the forefront, you’re never going to get there. And the more ambitious that destination, the farther the progress right of of what you could achieve.

00:23:25:09 – 00:23:47:07

Shane

You started and said, I only wanted to do three in the next five years, which I still think is a hell of a thing to overcome and actually make happen. But I only wanted to do three. Like even that would be a huge success, but you shot really far beyond that, and I think that that tells a lot about the character person that you’ve built into and, and the way that you treat and discuss coming in and actually serving people.

00:23:47:09 – 00:24:07:05

Shane

And that’s the number one best trait of a leader is one who serves. I mean, we learned that from Christ. You know, if if you’re Christian or it just you’re doing it in your own world, right. Like that idea of, the best leader is one who serves. And honestly, that’s part of the reason I follow Stephanie is that she she has been my leader in and we call partnership.

00:24:07:05 – 00:24:23:11

Shane

But really that’s that’s the way that she has treated us is she gets in and she serves. She’s in the trenches. She understands the roles. She’s done it all. And that that creates this idea of what I call moral authority. And that’s the you have the moral authority to be able to tell somebody that this is this is how it’s done.

00:24:23:13 – 00:24:35:13

Shane

And I understand the pain that goes along with doing it, but we still have to do it right. So I think that execution is is critical and kind of boiling that together. So did I analyze you in a way that you think actually fits your personnel and where you come from?

00:24:35:17 – 00:24:56:05

Ruth

Yes, yes I do. And it’s funny because the way you were putting it, that the first thing that, you know, came to my mind was and it’s very, evident with Stephanie, I think, you know, when she walks into the room, you know, she’s a leader when she walks into the room, you know, she’s a leader, you know?

00:24:56:11 – 00:25:01:20

Ruth

And, she don’t have to come in and go. I’m the boss. I’m the boss.

00:25:01:22 – 00:25:03:14

Shane

You know, she’s running the show. Yeah.

00:25:03:15 – 00:25:22:20

Ruth

It’s just she. You know, she’s running the show. Yeah. Let’s hear it. Let it just. So Jared turned her on. On to you. Because that’s that is that is something that I think that, you know, when you walk into a room and somebody goes, she’s running the show, she’s the boss, you know who she is and you’re not out there going, I’m the boss, I’m the boss.

00:25:22:20 – 00:25:47:00

Ruth

I don’t have to do that. I just, you know, and you have a lot of people who do that. I oh, I always chuckle because I think when I take people, make them a first time manager and everybody will say something, I’m like, oh, they’re going to get manager itis. And they’re like, well, what’s that? I said, that’s when they finally got some power and now they got to tell everybody they got the power, show them.

00:25:47:02 – 00:26:04:11

Ruth

So I said just, you know, as soon as it starts happening, just quash it down and they’ll be they’ll be fine. And, it’s actually a common trait for a lot of people. And to me, I just that I just, I can meld into the background. I’m okay. I don’t need to. I don’t need to show my face.

00:26:04:11 – 00:26:35:05

Ruth

I don’t need to show, you know, what we do? And it’s quite funny, even with my son, a lot of people, I guess I you would call me the front person for the company. And right or wrong, Stephanie, a lot of people don’t even know I have a partner back there, but he’s doing everything at the office, and, he takes care of the home office and, you know, make sure everything runs smooth and does whatever needs to be done.

00:26:35:07 – 00:26:47:09

Ruth

Here, I, you know. I, I did learn something from, a great leader. Am I allowed to say somebody’s name?

00:26:47:11 – 00:26:48:04

Steph

Sure.

00:26:48:06 – 00:27:16:15

Ruth

Okay. Mel Payne of carriage. Yeah, I will tell you. I think he is the one who, Truly, I think he’s a very, very, very intelligent guy. Have tons and tons of respect for the man. And I took a lot of stuff from him. The believe it and brought it forward. You know, being an owner, you’re just support.

00:27:16:17 – 00:27:42:12

Ruth

That’s that’s really what I feel my job is. My job is to support everybody in the company. Supporting acquisitions. I love acquisitions, that’s the that’s my favorite thing to do now. It truly is. It truly is. But but support. That’s that’s that’s your job. Your your support because you got to support your people. I think go ahead.

00:27:42:12 – 00:27:42:17

Steph

Right.

00:27:42:22 – 00:28:22:04

Brian

Let me get in it. Sure. I think part of what’s great about this conversation is you’re bringing up some really awesome principles of leadership, right? You’re talking about the person who’s in charge being a support for those around them, being, serving everyone. And another thing that I love is that I don’t know that we touched on what I was hearing a lot, when you were describing your background was accountability, being accountable and being the one that’s like Steph is saying, with owning owning your ownership, you’re owning your decisions.

00:28:22:06 – 00:28:49:18

Brian

You’re owning everything that that the company does and that you want to put forward. You own that, and that’s yours. And that’s I mean, you’ve had some amazing success, which tells me, tells all of us a lot about your outlook and how you own things and really focus on your employees, focus on the right things to be a good leader.

00:28:49:20 – 00:28:56:18

Brian

That kind of brings me to my point that I wanted to ask about, which was.

00:28:56:20 – 00:29:20:18

Brian

There’s a lot of folks who hopefully a lot of folks who will listen to this, but a lot of folks that maybe in the funeral industry who are coming up, like Steph said, 70 to 70% of of, students right now in, in this industry are women. Which means that in the future, there will be a lot of potential acquisitions.

00:29:20:20 – 00:29:50:21

Brian

I was reading something that Steph sent over that said, in the next five years, nearly half of funeral directors are planning to retire, which is opening up a huge a huge opportunity for acquisition. From your perspective, Ruth, what advice would you give a young entrepreneur, or someone who’s experienced in looking to make the jump into entrepreneurship, who’s thinking, hey, I could I could probably own one of these, I could do this.

00:29:50:23 – 00:29:58:07

Brian

What advice would you give that person to to kind of make that jump and make the transition to ownership?

00:29:58:09 – 00:30:30:02

Ruth

I have to tell you, I agree with you. I mean, even the movies stop a second. Look, every movie you see is a guy who is the funeral director, right? It’s the truth. And, and and what I would tell the women, don’t be afraid. Because I feel I could have probably done this ten, 12, 15 years prior. Instead, I held onto my job because I’m making a few hundred thousand a year.

00:30:30:04 – 00:30:59:01

Ruth

But what do you give up in your freedom and and be having your own dreams, goals, and how you want to run something? Really don’t wait. Just don’t wait. I people that’s what I think people do. They wait. They get so comfortable in your life and what’s going in the status quo. Okay, I got I got a nice place, you know, I got money coming in.

00:30:59:01 – 00:31:19:20

Ruth

I got a job. I don’t want to. I don’t want to upheaval, you know, and I when I worked for carriage when I left them is when I went into my own carriage, paid me very well and was a great company. And I’ll say that again on here because carriage was a great company. Val Paine again, great man.

00:31:19:21 – 00:31:45:01

Ruth

The people he has behind him, great people. But don’t wait, don’t wait. Because once you get into that comfortability, then you don’t want to do anything. You don’t want to move. And I was even unsure when I was getting this, and it was Stephanie who was like, look, girl, go for your dreams. Try it. And and that’s where it all end up.

00:31:45:01 – 00:32:07:02

Ruth

Leading to. And I was moving down the Greenville, South Carolina, and, my son had one baby. And then, I was leaving in like three weeks. And he goes, you got a spot for me? And I said, why? And he showed me he was having, identical twins. So when he came, he end up coming with me.

00:32:07:02 – 00:32:31:09

Ruth

And, it’s been great. It’s been great. I get to spend time with my grandkids when I want, okay? And you’re right. I make the decisions, and I own it. I own it good. Better and different people say, you know, we’ll just spend this, just spend that. And it’s like, at times 20 now you’re looking at 4000 a month, and the next year, you know, 50,000 and you know, we have 100.

00:32:31:14 – 00:32:58:06

Ruth

Here’s what I always tell everybody. Is it scary? It is. It is. But it’s so rewarding in so many ways. Go for it right off the bat, you know, and these, these, these women, they can come out because there are people like Stephanie who will lend the women and make you have to feel like you are less than something.

00:32:58:08 – 00:33:18:14

Ruth

It had to exactly. With two banks did to me. That’s what two banks did to me before. Stephanie. Came in and helped. And she’s the one who said, just go for it. Try it when you got to lose. And at that point, what do you got to lose? You know, and, and, somebody with the lady said, they said, oh, they lend to a million.

00:33:18:14 – 00:33:35:15

Ruth

I’m like, yeah, do you believe that? And ends doing the second one? I said, they is where you get nervous now that you got this many, millions. But I said, well, after the first million with the the matter. Right. So we’re just going to keep growing and we are going to and we are going to keep growing.

00:33:35:15 – 00:34:01:14

Ruth

But in the meantime, we did an amazing thing. We had purchased something. We moved on to Gainesville. I think we bought that one almost back to back, didn’t we, from Gainesville and like months, months apart. And, we moved on to Gainesville and, somebody purchased my Gainesville properties off me, a double what I paid what was it, three, three, four, eight years later.

00:34:01:16 – 00:34:29:03

Ruth

So we took that, paid that loan off, paid another, loan off down in the Saint Petersburg that we purchased. And, you know, for those those five paid all that off. So, yeah. And then go back at it again and, you know, and grow, grow. We grow. And that is our goal. It it slowed me down getting to my 50, but, turnaround money was absolutely amazing.

00:34:29:03 – 00:34:32:10

Ruth

And it’s hard to pass that up and pass that up.

00:34:32:12 – 00:34:52:11

Steph

I yeah, I totally remember like it was yesterday. So the three of us were together at the bank when Ruth called. With that I knew Ruth in the industry. She had this big corporate job. She had the entire country, and she she managed hundreds of cemeteries at the time. And I see her all the time at the conventions, and I.

00:34:52:11 – 00:35:15:11

Steph

I knew who she was. And, the big role that she had at this big corporate company, Mel talked about her all the time. And I knew Mel very well, too. And he had other leaders that were great. And I’ve all gone on to do exactly what Ruth is done, which is interesting. Right? Talk about interesting leadership. Yeah, I have worked for Mel, have gone on to buy their own and on their own and have become big, big consolidated big big.

00:35:15:13 – 00:35:30:02

Steph

Yeah. And when Ruth called with the first one, she’s like, I don’t know. You know, these two banks didn’t want to do it. Maybe I shouldn’t do it, but I know I’m going to make my, you know, I could do a thousand times better than the way they’re operating. I’m going to double the profit in a year, I’m telling you.

00:35:30:05 – 00:35:49:09

Steph

And so she sent out the the projections. And the projections were that the double doubling the revenue every year. And I think the other guys, the other bankers she was talking to because we’ve all worked with these credit offices, roar like, this little lady’s a dreamer. She doesn’t know what she’s talking about. She can’t double revenues in a year.

00:35:49:11 – 00:36:12:20

Steph

This is unrealistic. And I, I remember having to walk into the credit officer’s office and say, all right, we have to do this. There is no way she’s not going to succeed. Maybe something double it, but she’s going to kill it. She’s running hundreds of these things. She certainly can run a couple in Greenville. And so I remember and saying, well, if she ends up flaking, you’re going to be down there running the cemetery.

00:36:12:20 – 00:36:36:12

Steph

I’m like, fine, fine. I’ll go down there and I’ll move to Greenville and I’ll take over the cemetery. And sure enough, Ruth came in and more than I think doubled in the first year. Second year, I mean, astronomical multiples. The minute she took over, I couldn’t believe it. I’m like, what are you doing that’s so different? And it’s a cemetery, you know, it’s not like you can do a whole different model.

00:36:36:12 – 00:36:47:19

Steph

It’s plots like you don’t with product, you know. But she she has the secret touch. It’s amazing. And sure enough, she paid that loan off early.

00:36:47:20 – 00:36:51:00

Ruth

Yeah. It’s we we just.

00:36:51:02 – 00:36:52:19

Steph

Paid it off. I’m like yes.

00:36:52:21 – 00:36:59:06

Ruth

Yeah. Just just get you to the I don’t know. You know what a move to Greenville. It’s a fast upcoming area of the country.

00:36:59:06 – 00:37:11:03

Steph

I mean I was in I told Ruth I’m like, Ruth, I’ll quit my job and I’ll come work for you. I think it’s like, not even, you know, you have to stay there because I need more money. Because I need more money.

00:37:11:05 – 00:37:27:02

Ruth

Yeah. Oh, yeah. And and we’ve used there numerous times. And trust me, there will be. There’s more coming. Again, we’re always looking for it. So if you guys know anywhere and I tell everybody, and this is what I do, this is how I get these, you know, if you know anybody, let me know.

00:37:27:04 – 00:37:50:18

Steph

I hope I’m not going to like, oh, I do get irritated when I get those same questions from the credit team. Well, you know, how is she able to juggle her life and be in honor of all these locations? What are you talking about? You know, it’s it’s very condescending. It’s very condescending because I don’t know if those same questions would come up if it was a man who had 20 vocations.

00:37:50:18 – 00:37:54:09

Steph

Honestly, I’ve never had to answer that question, you know? Well.

00:37:54:11 – 00:38:13:17

Shane

Let me jump in on this too. I want to and my, my thoughts this the and that this exists across banking. You have people that have never run a business themself that are deciding on something. And a lot of the times it’s entirely subjective. It’s it’s something we gripe about all the time when it doesn’t matter where you’re at, what bank you’re at.

00:38:13:17 – 00:38:34:07

Shane

This is always the conversation, even us right now, Stephanie, out of all of us, has the one is the one that has ownership experience. Brian myself have done other little knickknack things, but we’re not right. So we’ve learned by watching other people succeed or fail and have learned how to analyze. And a lot of the credit guys in the, in the banking industry kind of live in that same space.

00:38:34:09 – 00:38:59:01

Shane

But there’s there’s something that goes along with experience. But I think in with the growth of the acquisition market right now, it becoming the noisy, the silver tsunami that everyone’s talking about. And you’re, you’re you’re on that wave riding it hard. Right? Okay. Like the acquisition growth. Like you’re hungry. You’re loving it. It’s delicious to you. Right. The the idea that comes out of all of this is experience is your is is your kind of momentum.

00:38:59:03 – 00:39:08:15

Shane

Right. So the moment you have that experience, once you’ve gotten the first one done, you’re just like, damn it, I could do this 100 times like I it’s we figure it out. It’s just rinse and repeat. Rinse and repeat.

00:39:08:17 – 00:39:09:09

Steph

Having kids.

00:39:09:14 – 00:39:09:22

Shane

And this.

00:39:10:00 – 00:39:12:13

Steph

Again. Oh, what’s one more? Two.

00:39:12:15 – 00:39:39:02

Shane

Brian’s got four kids, and I think he’s not. Not is as glorious. But the, quite I think the. Well, granted Brian’s not pushing him out. So I think that has part of the, the problem, you know, as far as this is actual physical aspect of it, he’s not participating in that element. But nevertheless, I think the, the idea is that that you pick up on and that even that bankers roll back to is that we actually are.

00:39:39:04 – 00:39:55:01

Shane

I had that conversation is the first thing that comes out of my mouth when I talk to anybody buying a business. Now, why do you think you can actually run this? And it’s interesting. Some of you say like, oh, it’s a cool idea. Like I it’s amazing how unprepared mentally people are for that question. Like, yeah, how have you not had this dialog?

00:39:55:06 – 00:40:10:22

Shane

And at the same time, though, I’ve had to even get them to say, okay, now imagine I’m some grumpy old dude that’s sitting in at a table that doesn’t believe anything you’re about to tell me. Convince me otherwise, right? It sounds like one of those sales classes you probably had back in telemarketing, right?

00:40:10:23 – 00:40:13:09

Ruth

Correct. They used to teach you.

00:40:13:10 – 00:40:30:05

Shane

You’re selling to somebody that doesn’t believe you. You gotta. You got to give me something. You got to think through that logic of what’s going on and that that if you’ve got that story straight, you’ve got that elevator pitch. It works. And I think. And then somebody that backs you up, right? Steph backed you up real quick. Right.

00:40:30:05 – 00:40:40:09

Shane

Like she she energized your momentum. She kind of kicked it in the pants a little and said like go for it sister. And that’s what pulled together to to really pick it up. You didn’t feel alone in it.

00:40:40:11 – 00:41:01:06

Ruth

That’s exactly it. And you know, and I got to tell you, it’s her. And it was her staff at the time you called them. They were there. They were there to help all the time. That is true. This last one that we just did, that was one of the biggest, questions that they have was, how are you going to run this?

00:41:01:06 – 00:41:31:05

Ruth

Well, I’m going to add it on to the other 21 that I do. You know, my car’s two, right? My car’s two. And a half years old. I got 130,000 miles on it. Yeah. You know, I, I got it at one mile. Yeah, I got it one mile. I mean, I I’m still a road dog. And I guess I always have been when I was running hundreds, and, you know, 60 for still more than a hundred and, you know, for that, I think carriage was for this, I don’t know, up.

00:41:31:07 – 00:41:56:13

Ruth

But whatever it was, I got to tell you, I was a road dog then. Now just I’m for myself, and I get to make the decisions. I think that, I think that you do need somebody behind you, like Stephanie, who is a banker who is pushing for you. And I think that’s what people don’t realize. You don’t have a lot of women sitting in her seat.

00:41:56:15 – 00:42:22:07

Ruth

And again, it comes back to, you don’t have a lot of women sitting in my seat. It’s, you know, when you’re breaking glass ceilings. And that’s all we’re doing is breaking glass ceilings for the next generation coming up. That’s why I stayed to say that to you. What’s my what’s my best thing that I can tell these, women who are coming out to do by by purchase, do your dream.

00:42:22:09 – 00:42:43:17

Ruth

Whatever your dream is, started now. Don’t wait. Don’t get comfortable in your life. And then 30 years, 40 years passes you by. Don’t do it. You know, I could have actually bought a cemetery. Probably within the first ten years that I was in this industry. Instead, I waited, you know, for 30 more years. Don’t do it.

00:42:43:17 – 00:43:06:13

Ruth

Don’t get comfortable. Don’t get comfortable, you know? But you look around. Well, I got a I got a kid, I got to feed, I got to keep a house, I got it, and there’s there’s all that. You can give yourself a thousand reasons, right? You can give yourself a thousand reasons. But if you start thinking on the other side, you can give yourself a thousand reasons to do it, too.

00:43:06:14 – 00:43:23:09

Ruth

Do the old Ben Franklin did the old Ben Franklin. And I know a lot of people don’t even know what that is. And you guys are looking at me like, what the heck? Ben Franklin does take a piece of paper, put a line down the middle, pros on one side, cons on the other side. See what outweighs it.

00:43:23:11 – 00:43:50:07

Ruth

And if you do that for yourself, you’d be surprised. Normally the pros outweigh the cons, and I. It’s why when we talk about these younger people moving up. Absolutely. You need help? Call me. I’ll help you. I’ll. I’ll point you in the right direction. I’ll help you. I’ll support you. Like, as I got support. I mean, that isn’t that what I hate to say, guys, that’s that’s what us women need to do is support one another.

00:43:50:09 – 00:44:19:16

Steph

And that’s what we do. You know, we talk about mentors all the time and a few as ten years ago, I started to resent that word because I’m like mentors. Great. More men telling you to with my wife. They’re already telling me what to do. You know, I it’s interesting. I was thinking about today and last night when I fell asleep and I had a dream and I dreamt about a real life thing that happened when we worked for this bank three banks ago.

00:44:19:16 – 00:44:44:00

Steph

Right. So whoever’s listening could do the math. And now we were at an event and the owner of the bank came up and asked me to dance. And I was there with my husband. Everyone’s with their spouses. It’s like it’s. I thought it was awkward, right? So I was like, no, no, I’m good. Thanks so much. So I well, and so my husband and I are sitting there and the president of the bank looks over at me and he says, hey, when the owner asks you to dance, you dance.

00:44:44:02 – 00:45:06:11

Steph

And sure enough, I got up and I danced with the dude. And this morning I woke up and I was like, mad. Thinking that about sums up the career of a woman in corporate America. Hey, little lady, like I was running the whole department, right? Hey, little lady, when the owner asks you dance, you dance. And sure enough, I got up and I danced.

00:45:06:12 – 00:45:31:23

Steph

Well, shame on me. Those dancing days are over, man. They’re over. I don’t want mentors anymore. I want centers healthy and that’s it. I want Stem tours in my life like you. And I want FEM tours in that I can be French or two other young girls coming up the rates and even myself. I mean, look, we talk about this all the time.

00:45:32:01 – 00:45:43:01

Steph

I knew roof, I’ve been in corporate America for 25 years now. Comfortable? You know, dancing with the owner when he asked me to dance. Because that’s what I have to do.

00:45:43:03 – 00:45:43:14

Ruth

Yeah.

00:45:43:16 – 00:46:19:11

Steph

So, yeah, I think this is an invaluable lesson. I have one question on culture, and it’s interesting because I’ve met a lot of roots employees. And so they come all these different companies, legacy businesses. So they they have that legacy attached. But then once Ruth becomes the owner, it’s interesting because you said that you’ve you’ve kept all those businesses the way they were, but they’ve kind of morphed now under you, under your culture.

00:46:19:12 – 00:46:24:19

Steph

Yes. You didn’t have to top down it. It just happened.

00:46:24:21 – 00:46:49:19

Ruth

You know, the worst thing is when somebody’s purchasing a business, all those employees, the first thing they think is, oh my God, I’m not going to have a job. And who wants to live like that? Okay, I don’t, so why would I want somebody else to? Oh my God, I don’t have a job. You know, we are we we we again, when we first come in, we let them run into.

00:46:49:19 – 00:47:15:02

Ruth

We see the way they’re running. The last business we bought. Such a nice family. Just a nice. I mean, just a great family. Unfortunately, with that, they’d have a scrap of paper and that’s, you know, and they’re like, what is this? And a be in their file. And that was what they owned. It’s like you’re it was it was nuts.

00:47:15:04 – 00:47:37:10

Ruth

It’s still nuts. We’re still trying. So, you know, so they were very still back in the 50s and 60s, which is fine. Now, you know, we have hired a few new people along with the people who work there. So they sort of started adjusting to us that, you know, we put everything on computers. Everything’s added nowadays.

00:47:37:10 – 00:47:57:03

Ruth

Add a touch of a button, you know, you can see what the file is and that type of stuff. So we try to bring them along a little bit at a time. I mean, we sometimes we get in the last place we got into, the person didn’t even know how to use email. And everybody in the company gets a corporate email.

00:47:57:05 – 00:48:21:16

Ruth

So, you know, we have people set it up and show them and put it on their computer in front of them. And, you know, it’s a touch of a button. So it’s just, it, it and you don’t even realize that 2025 but there are still people who don’t see the need for it. And these people didn’t see the need for, you know, bringing anything into the future.

00:48:21:16 – 00:48:47:06

Ruth

I mean, and that’s okay, because that’s the way they did it for 60, 70 years. You know, that’s the way they did it. So, just trying to get people and keep people. We don’t want to upset the applecart too much. When we go into these places, you know, we go in, we evaluate, you, evaluate them, of course, before you buy them, and then you go in after you buy them.

00:48:47:08 – 00:49:12:19

Ruth

Because I understand, as the bankers just don’t want to hear this. There’s only so much evaluation you can do until you actually sitting in the seat watching a day to day operation for a month, two months to see actually what’s happening. And once you do that, then you can start making your changes in, you know, what’s going to be best for that particular location.

00:49:12:21 – 00:49:21:20

Steph

Yeah, that’s very true, actually. That’s true. Well, you guys have anything else?

00:49:21:22 – 00:49:44:20

Brian

Yeah. I’ll just I’ll do a quick one. This real fast because, Ruth, I, am an attorney. And so my background is legal and so I’m curious, as I’m sure maybe some folks, at least one human being out there might be curious about this, too. Is do you structure what is the legal structure for all of your businesses?

00:49:44:20 – 00:49:56:13

Brian

You’ve got 20 different businesses. Are they all in separate LLCs owned by a parent company? How do you separate that out and why?

00:49:56:15 – 00:50:23:23

Ruth

What we do is, yes, the parent company is Faithful Heritage Holdings. And of the parent company in California’s Faithful Heritage Holdings West, I got very creative. But yes, everyone does it right. Everybody does have their own LLC. Each of the, each of the acquisitions have their own LLC. And then it comes underneath the parent company and the reason is couple fold.

00:50:24:03 – 00:50:53:03

Ruth

One is for accounting purposes, when you’re when you’re filing taxes and accounting purposes, the other one is, you know, yes. Do do somebody falls, and they want to sue or, you know, it just makes it a lot easier to have it all separated out. But mainly if you ask my CFO, it is for tax purposes because it makes it easier.

00:50:53:05 – 00:51:15:08

Ruth

And same thing when we went to sell those ones up in Gainesville. The truth was it was all separated out. We just it had its own LLC and its own number and we just, you know, pushed it right out. It was no loss to everything else in the company. It didn’t take for, you know, to try to untangle and unwind it, I guess, since, and that’s just it.

00:51:15:08 – 00:51:37:04

Ruth

I mean, so if you’re only in one place, but if you’re going to do multiples, I would suggest that you would do each one as a individual entity. I am sure the bigger companies, actually that’s not true. I think they also do. I mean, you know, when I work for, carriage, each one of them had their own.

00:51:37:06 – 00:51:55:07

Ruth

They were all their own company also. And it all fell under one. It all comes under one umbrella. So that’s. But that’s it. Just to makes it easier for accounting purposes as well as if you decide you’re going to, get rid of something or disperse it.

00:51:55:09 – 00:51:56:16

Brian

Gotcha. Cool. Thanks.

00:51:56:16 – 00:52:18:09

Steph

Yeah, yeah, it’s fun on the underwrite side. But again, now that I’ve been here since the beginning, I mean, I have everything Ruth has ever done, you know, since 2019. So it’s fun because, you know, sort of rescind everything. Because I have everything. So that makes it easier. Well, Ruth, I can’t tell you. I think about you all the time.

00:52:18:09 – 00:52:36:07

Steph

I know we’re in touch all the time. Your story is so inspiring. But it’s more than that. It’s historic. I mean, you know, you think about you should have done it sooner. You know, when you think about what lesson you learned, I wish I would have done it earlier. We weren’t allowed earlier. It was only until 1988 that you were allowed to do this.

00:52:36:07 – 00:52:39:04

Steph

So think about that. Crazy right?

00:52:39:06 – 00:52:50:00

Ruth

I, I just I still think that’s nuts. I think that’s nuts. And people don’t even realize it was 19 in the 1970. A woman can finally get a credit card on her own. I mean.

00:52:50:01 – 00:53:15:00

Steph

Yeah, my God. Yeah. You people way. That is our our responsibility in our lifetimes. All of ours is to pave the way for the next generation. That’s all our job is, is to leave the world a little better than it was when we got here. And to raise good children, have good friends and families and take care of our people, taking care of our people and everything you do.

00:53:15:00 – 00:53:31:04

Steph

Ruth, is that, you’re paving the way for female entrepreneurs, but paving the way for family legacies. And that, to me, is my motto. My motto is never. I just want to get ahead and I want to climb the ladder. I want to make lots of money. Like you and I are the same Ruth. We don’t need more stuff.

00:53:31:07 – 00:53:38:15

Steph

We don’t need bigger cars and bigger purses and all this other stuff. Everything we do is to enjoy our time with our people.

00:53:38:17 – 00:53:53:21

Ruth

That’s it. That’s exactly what it is right now. You know, when, when if I’m not working or on the road at that would, at that time, that’s exactly what I do. I go spend time with my grandkids. It’s what makes me happy. Yeah. That’s all. So it makes me happy.

00:53:53:21 – 00:53:55:06

Steph

So that’s.

00:53:55:08 – 00:54:03:13

Ruth

That’s. Yeah. You know, and I know, you are too young. You got all them guys grandkids yet? But wait, they.

00:54:03:15 – 00:54:25:20

Steph

Well, yeah. Well, wait, this has filled my heart and my tank. And I want all our listeners to join in this movement and be inspired by your story and be inspired by our friendship. And and that means the world to me. How I truly believe in what I do, because I want to be there and I want to be a resource, and I will.

00:54:25:20 – 00:54:48:13

Steph

You do too. And so I would tell our, our listeners to like and subscribe to our Lords of Lending, join in our movement, because what we’re doing is we’re helping those who chase the American dream by funding them. That is my part in this whole processes. You have the dream. I’m going to find a way to help you as much as I possibly can and fund it.

00:54:48:15 – 00:55:01:11

Steph

And so access is everything and education is power, right? So we need to continue to push all this information out so people know what’s available and can chase their dreams to.

00:55:01:13 – 00:55:21:14

Ruth

I tell you what, again I say this in all honesty, they’re welcome to look me up on LinkedIn. They can, face I don’t care how you get in touch with me. You’re welcome in. Anybody’s willing to do it if they’re willing to put their time in and get in touch with me, I will help them, and I will point them in the right direction.

00:55:21:14 – 00:55:41:00

Ruth

And the truth is, I think over the last month, I pointed two people in your direction, and you know, to because they need help. And that’s what it’s all about as a network. It’s a network. And we just, you know, and I these guys don’t want to hear, but is women helping women. That’s who I center with.

00:55:41:00 – 00:55:49:12

Ruth

Two more women to, to to try to help and and we’ll just keep moving along and until, until women rule the world.

00:55:49:14 – 00:55:58:03

Steph

Which is hopefully in our lifetime. We’ll see. It’ll be hopefully we for, we’re running the show. Yeah.

00:55:58:05 – 00:56:03:03

Ruth

But thank you guys very much for having me on. I truly appreciate it and enjoy the talk.

00:56:03:04 – 00:56:12:17

Steph

Appreciate you. And you’re our first woman. Owning ownership. Guests paving the way. Thank you. So perfect on the show.

00:56:12:19 – 00:56:15:23

Ruth

Thank you. Thank you Stephanie. And I’ll be seeing you anyway.

00:56:16:02 – 00:56:17:07

Steph

Yes.

00:56:17:09 – 00:56:18:23

Ruth

Nice meeting you guys. Thank you.

00:56:19:03 – 00:56:35:13

Steph

Thanks for. All right. Well, thank you for joining. Be sure to like, follow, subscribe and share this amazing podcast with our Lords of Lending where we talk about how deals get done, legacies get built, and entrepreneurs own ownership.